Our home ed group had its sportsday today. (Would blog piccies, but only took one, and don’t know which kids belong to who to ask permission of!) I came back in a foul mood, having spent the morning feeling decidedly out of place. I’m used to that when I’m amongst more mainstream ppl – I’ve never been very good at fitting in. I just don’t know what to say or how to say it. But I resent feeling the outsider at a home ed group.
Not that this was the groups fault at all, purely my own. Big is not a joiner inner iykwim, and I dreaded the inevitable tantrum. She had been stressing herself on the way about races, a low monotone from the back seat about how little children can’t win races, and maybe they can win races and so on. Now I take the point as expressed on Sarah’s blog and comments recently that life involves winning and losing and as such children need to get used to it. But Big is only 4, and the majority of the other children there are older (or the younger ones just didn’t take part at all) so she wasn’t standing much chance of experiencing winning, and she was very aware of that. She sat out the beginning races, and ppl kept asking me if she wanted to join in – well, I wasn’t going to push her into it, my thought being that if she wanted to join in she could, and if I pushed her into it I’d end up with a scene. So eventually the low key approach paid off and she had a go at the potato and spoon race, and the relay (but only once, which rather threw out the team dynamics when they went to do it all again), and was desperate to have a go at the obstacle race. She was given a place and a pile of props, and someone else aquired them, which didn’t go down well. I was told that she’d been given the place and must have moved away, which she hadn’t, which I stated, as I’d been stood next to her throughout. So another pile was found, and the race began. Hm. How to describe it? well, do you all remember Eric the Eel?
🙁 I don’t mind her coming last. I don’t mind her having fun, or not having fun, depending on what she decides to do. I do mind her succeeding in getting the majority of parents gathered round attempting to sort out her problems, because she doesn’t actually want the problems sorting out, she just wants the audience, and giving it to her causes both me and her more problems in the long run. Hohum.
There were also parent races, much to my despair. I loathe that sort of participative amusement – if I wanted to race I’d join a running club. I loathe being told I’m skiving because I don’t want to join in – it might be said as a joke, but it isn’t funny, and it takes me back to those terrifying peer pressure moments from school all too easily. I’m still struggling to understand why we were having a sports day – all the effort appeared to be made by the parents, and yes the children ran around, but let’s face it, they ran around without all the props last week and the week before. They didn’t take any care over any of the things they were playing with, which I find personally offensive – I don’t like to take things and have them abused, but there doesn’t seem to me to be much encouragement for them take responsibility. Oh I dunno. I know that I win hands down at neurotic parenting awards, but I do find the completely laid back approach to be extremely difficult. Or perhaps everyone else is feeling the same way but no one is saying it?
We’ve got a meeting at the weekend to discuss the future of the group – I won’t be attending, but I’ll be sending my comments in. Not that I’ve figured them out yet. It seems to me that in this kind of group situation there is sometimes a bend over backwards attitude to not upsetting anyone that results in noone getting what they want or need from the situation.
Anyway, enough of the musing. Got back and finally managed to speak to the chap from the recruitment agency, who had found a different contract that basically sounded like a description of the job I just left. Doubt I’ll get it, and it would have its own attendant problems if I did (it’s in Liverpool, which isn’t exactly commuting distance!) but it was quite nice in a way to be thought suitable for something.
Big had obviously exhausted herself this morning – she’s just watched tv all afternoon. And Small is getting carried away with this walking lark – he wants to run now! Picking up a good selection of bruises – I’m intrigued as to how he keeps managing to land on his head…he’s in bed now (whisper) so I’d better get on with some work, cos he’s either going to get up again in a bit, or he’s going to be up at the crack of dawn!
Comments
20 responses to “On the outside looking in.”
aw, I don’t know what to say … it sounds like such a stark contrast to Joe’s sports day, which really was lovely (never mind about all the theory wrt competitiveness). I know at our HE group I have felt the same about the group dynamics of ‘laid back approach’, and I’m sure it is accentuated at something like a sports day …
*hugs*, anyway, and I hope the work situation resolves itself quickly, and I’ll be praying that you find something that fits in well with family.
(((Jax))), I know exactly what you mean. I am pretty sociable – well actually matbe not sociable just very confident so get on fine in a crowd, but now we intend to HE we don’t ‘fit’ in the mainstream crowd quite so well, and I’ve yet to find my ‘niche’ in the HE crowd really. Like you I am quite definate in my approach to parenting, I have a fair few rules and things I would not accept, when I looked into TCS I was genuinely horrified! and am about to do some musings of my own over on my blog about friendships for small people so won’t expand any further onm that one here, suffice to say I’m with ya! and crossing lots of fingers for work stuff too.
I don’t know what it is at the moment Jax but most of us bloggers all seem to be of one mind.
I know exactly how you feel. The HE group I go to have mostly let the children run riot and
not a lot has been organised. The first week I went I took something for them all to do and
that is all we did. I don’t seem to want the same as everyone else, although tbh I haven’t
particulary asked them. I’ts not that I want everyone to be the same – after all that is why
we HE because we want things different from everyone else. I’m with you on the not using and
abusing your things too. Re the job situation – I don’t know if this will help at all but my
friend and her husband have both got sort of full-time jobs from home writing and programming
for a company called Promethian (sp?). They are the people who make the Interactive WhiteBoards.
My friend writes/programmes content for new software they are developing – she is doing stuff
for Teaching English as a second Language. Her dh is doing some other work for them. Anyway
this firm seem to be taking a lot of people on in the last few weeks – don’t know details
whether they have got part timers etc but they share care of their daughter although she is
at nursery too – sorry it is a bit long hope it is something you can look into if you are
interested.
Sounds like a horrid sports day. Reminds me of another reason I’m glad dd won’t be at school. I hated coming last all the time, and being forced into doing it. I think we need our own group 😉
I think you’re right. 😉
I am not sure what the people in your (Jax) group are laid back about. I think I am fairly laid back about letting the kids do what they want *but* not in a way that is destructive to the things or people they are with. There is a big difference between letting children have autonomy in what they do in a group situation and them ‘running riot’, there do seem to be a number of people who think they are the same things. Kids can be left to their own devices and not run riot, organisation should not be the panacea for an unruly group of kids.
As a kid I liked competition, it didn’t happen very often but when it did it was fun. And before you jump to conclusions it wasn’t because of my being any good at anything. My only sportings day memory was coming last in a two-length backstroke race – all the other competitors had finished before I finished one length 😉 I was about 8 and have no memory of any trauma, it was all rather funny.
However, I don’t subscribe to the view that life is a competition therefore kids should learn this sooner rather than later. Life, in my view, isn’t a competition it is about teamwork – I suspect anyone who simply completes ends up very unhappy. But elements of life are competitive and being able to ‘compete’, to lose and win is a skill like many others that is usefully learnt in my opinion. Different people will have different views as to when that skill might start to be learnt and how. In my view a 4yo at a public sports day is not the best introduction to learning how to compete. But personally I don’t think there is anything wrong in introducing small children to competition be it, cards, monopoly, noughts and crosses. For this reason I *never* let the children win anything when I play with them.
Blimey that was a suprisingly thoughtful post for me. I am not slighytly anxious about the numerous activities that Jax will have laid on for us this weekend in order that we don’t run riot and abuse her things, gulp.
Thank you for that Chris. Once again you have cut to the heart of the matter – there is indeed often a confusion between autonomy and chaos. Ppl are so anxious not to over discipline that they end up offering no guidance at all. I’d love to go into this further, but I’m rushing to get out just now – hopefully we’ll actually get chance to talk inbetween the numerous activities I have planned roflol…
At some point all children need to learn that “my right to freedom of action ends where your nose begins”, they can either be taught that nicely, at home with their family, or they can be taught it by a fellow convict. I think that the “laid back” parents who refuse to recognise that fairly obvious fact are indulging themselves not their children.
If you don’t give children a clear and consistent framework to live within you are just going to make them and yourself unhappy. This means that you have to let them know that there are boundaries to what constitutes acceptable behaviour and that necessitates some form of sanction when they step over those boundaries. If children don’t know what the boundaries are, their natural curiosity will lead to them inevitably seeking them out. This means that the “laid back” parents laziness and selfishness (and that is what I believe it is) in not satisfying their children needs will be rewarded by increasingly bad behaviour. However, I don’t think it matters too much what the rules are and I don’t think it matters too much what the sanctions are, mostly they just need to be consistently applied.
As to the competitive thing, my brother and I were very competitive, which resulted in us both being fairly good at games like Backgammon. I think this was healthy, and we accepted triumphs and defeats as a part of that competition.
School sports at my school were structured around one objective – achieving school team victories which would impress prospective customers (it was an independant school). More or less, this meant that 45 boys were required to play in the rugby teams and the remainder were expected to stand around to be tackled. I quite liked rugby but I, and I suspect most of my peers, left school with no intention of ever participating in sport again.
I am prepared to accept that learning about competitiveness may be quite important and can have positive impact for a child, but, in the grand scheme of things it is far less important than learning the much more sophisticated skills needed to function as a part of a group. And it seems to me that this particular group is failing completely on that count.
Frankly, from my own experience, I have no reason to think that “school” (or school-like”) sports are an effective way to train for either competitiveness or team skills. I think you will produce good cannon fodder, but not even good soldiers. What I do think school sports should be focused on is getting people to enjoy SOME form of exercise and to want to participate in it voluntarily once they leave school, that would be a major contribution to the long term health and happiness of the adult population.
Laid back isn’t a good phrase here, is it? You see, I’m neurotic, and I’m very aware of it. I stress again that I see this as my failing. It makes me deeply nervous to go into the hall and discover several small children balancing on top of piles of stacked chairs that are themselves sitting at the edge of a nice concrete step. I start to hyperventilate when I discover that there are very small children sitting under the piles of chairs during this activity. But other parents are completely relaxed about it, and can even sit next to these piles of chairs while the scramblings are going on. I can’t. So is it up to me to change the group? Is it fair to express these concerns, or should I just recite calming mantras and drag Big and Small away by their hair?
Part of the agenda for the weekend meeting is about conflict resolution between children – there appears to be no recognition that there could be disagreement between the adults. 🙁
I would qualify what i said on Sarah’s blog, and therefore agree with Chris (always a good idea i find since he is much cleverer at arguing than i am) by saying that while i do think life is competitive and its a skill worth learning, there are ways and means and yes, being beaten round the head at 4 with “you are smaller therefore will lose” is no fun. It was the unfairness or perhaps “unlevelness” of some of the Sparky stuff that i found pretty horrible. Not that i think either that competitive games need to be managed to the extent that “everyone wins once” or anything but i think it must be possible to judge something in a way that kids can relate to as fair. HESFES manages runaround games everyday without misery, and it HAS to be PC at HESFES! lol.
Sounds like you had a rotten day and i can really related to that “thrown back to how i once felt” feeling. HUGS.
deep comments section eh? well unlike Jax I have to confess to tending not to worry about other children unless they are affecting me or mine. however i am in almost total agreement with everything Tim and Chris said. i believe it is my responsibility as a parent to raise children who are polite, have social skills, know how to behave and moderate and change their behaviour according to their surroundings and companions, are aware of the concept of rules and how to obey them and face consequences if they don’t. I believe that is my responisbility to society as a whole, to myself and chiefly to my children as they are skills I believe are imperitve in liefe.
Jax, I really don’t get the chair scenario – yes, don’t let Big and Small play there if you don’t like it, but does it matter what the others are doing? If the other parents aren’t bothered about the apparent risk to *their* children, why get yourself upset by it? Or do you feel that they’re just *ignoring* what their children are doing, and not even considering any potential risk?
I figure my responsibility is to my children, not other people’s (assuming they have a parent around). C and I have expectations of bahaviour – e.g. when we’re at a restaurant we expect the kids to behave themselves nicely – but I also aim to allow as much autonomy as is possible in a 6-person family.
I would no more expect someone to tell my child to stop what they were doing because it’s dangerous than I would expect them to come in my house and brush my children’s hair! I remember feeling completely outraged once at our HE group when Elijah, aged about Small’s age, was sitting on my lap, hacking at the end of a loaf of bread with a small but sharp knife, and the woman sitting next to me took it off him.
It’s hard to debate this, because it’s so much based on quite deep personal feelings – I can’t change the fact that Poppy climbing in and out of their bedroom window *doesn’t* give me palpitations, and I don’t suppose you can change the fact that you’d have 999 ready on the phone ….. 😉
Giggle… I don’t mind so long as i can’t see 🙂 (as you may have noticed!) I prefer not to look at HESFES but slightly lost the plot over the Ammi up the climbing frame thing, mainly because she kept throwing a strop once she was stuck! I did manage a remarkable attack of “fine, you’ve proved you can do it, i’m going to read on the bed”-ness over Ammi and the loft ladder though.
Thats a heights thing, i HATE heights, i hate ladders, i hate hate hate climbing frames without safety harnessess and safety nets… better not to look!!!
I am aware that I see more potential risk than most, and that’s my problem, not anyone else’s. 😉 But I can’t allow Big to have the freedom I would like to at the group as she is in danger of being injured (many of the children go to the woodcraft group that we’ve stopped going to, and she *was* hurt there) by children who aren’t thinking about what effect their actions might have on others. I think that’s what really bothers me – not that the child on top of the chairs might fall off, but that the small and not nearly as responsible child underneath could get squashed, and the older children don’t seem to be looking out for them at all. In fact, I know that they aren’t looking out for other children, there was an incident at the sportsday involving the tug of war rope, and children not stopping even when a younger child shouted at them to. One of the other mothers gave a bit of a talk about it, but it was such a quiet and restrained remark that she made, that I suspect it just won’t have registered at all.
so I *think* that it is more the lack of any kind of group responsibility that is getting me down, and I’m fairly sure that that is not something which is going to improve in that group any time soon. I know that it doesn’t have to be like that – when we used to meet up at JFK the older kids looked out for the younger kids, it was one of the best bits about it, and one of the things that I like most about home ed.
Re. comment 9 (by Jax)
Are they aware of how you think on these matters? If not, maybe you’re not alone and others there also need to de-closet?
Yeah, I’m sure you’re not alone. There’s no point going along to a group that is so stressy – you are just going to have to sort out your northern muddlepuddle group and recruit all the malcontents 😉
The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the (small) many! So Moodlepoodle (“oo” pronounced to rhyme with good) South Yorkshire then.
Listened in to a fascinating phone conversation comprised of the mutual adoration society of my father and dd the other day. She was explaining to him about the “dooks” on the campsite at Lowestoft. He hadn’t a clue what she was talking about. 🙂
Not sure about MoodlePoodle, since Jax is the only native speaker. Kirsty, Barbara, Sarah and I are not from round here!
I am so not from round here! Durham born and bred, *west* yorkshire brought up…I don’t sound like the natives! lol
So sorry Jax. 🙂 Anyway I think of West Yorkshire as ’round here’ since I actually live just where you were brought up.