Following a discussion on a list somewhere, someone suggested that many ppl rely on Hesfes as their introduction to home ed and the home ed community.
This seems odd to me on many levels. Are there really ppl who go to Hesfes who’ve never met any other home educators? Hesfes doesn’t begin to represent the entirety of the home ed community. I’m sure there are large subsections that wouldn’t dream of going near it, forgive me for the stereotyping, but I can’t imagine that ppl home educating for religious reasons and doing a structured approach have even heard of it, let alone would go to it.
How many ppl go to Hesfes once and never again? Or how many of the ppl going aren’t now home educated – teens past the age perhaps?
I’d be really interested in answers as to how ppl reading here met home ed and the home ed community irl, way back whenever it was.
Pondering on how I could research this more efficiently…
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28 responses to “Musing”
Hmm? wellll, I gues we have always been internet types, and have always belonged to various newsbroups. As we had SB, we started joining parenting newsgroups and online parenting sites [UKPP and UK parents mainly]
I think we decided to home educate gradually, as betweent the age of 2-3 you start to think about these things. I’m not entirely sure what the impetus was – class sizes? on size fits all edu? the realsiation SB bright and chatty and would be attempts to subdue? my own edu experiences??
whatever, we looked around and joined various home ed groups under chris as lurkers.
I think my first experience of home ed was a portico posting to UKPP actually. My first meetings were with the yorkshire home ed meet ups – diverse and friendly peope, but due to the timing, mostly chris went as a workday for me. So I have probably only been about 8 times. I guess that leaves mudpud melrose, associated blogs and the rather frightening eo and ukhe mailing lists.
mudpud and assoc blogs has been the main meeting the community irl though
The first HEers I met IRL were travelling people, when I was working as an outreach HV. So mid eighties, I guess. The first ones I met once *I* started to consider it were local people doing it for religious reasons. I had actively sought them out through Schoolhouse, having had no luck at all with the eo contact list.
I joined eo, and MP, and went to a conference inYork in May-ish time, in 2001, run by eo. Didn’t send Hannah to school that summer. In May 2002 I went to HESFES as a day visitor and in September 2002 I went to Buxton and met a few people (Ros, Merry, Kirsty, Kath, Tech and Jan being the only ones I still know/ communiate with on a regular basis).
Went to both these things without knowing anybody, and went by myself, with only Hannah. Bob came to Buxton, and we took our caravan.
I have met loads of people who either haven’t heard of HESFES, or who have heard of it, and wouldn’t DREAM of going. Met people there who are really unhappy and uncomfortable, and people like me who just take to it.
It’s a hard one, as I love HESFES, for all sorts of complex reasons. But I do think the organisation is a disgrace, and getting worse. An event that size needs a bit more in the way of organisation. IMO, obviously 😉 I’ve also found found that when people offer to help, they usually aren’t taken up on it, and in fact, are often just ridiculed for offering – the archeology woman a example in point.
I always think that the mass of agreeing that everything someone does (unless, of course, that someone is me ;-)) is wonderful, is dangerous. I don’t like it in politics, and I don’t like it at work, and I don’t like it in HE. There are no gurus, in my opinon, and I feel really uneasy when people either set themselves up as one, or others do it to them – usually with a degree of collusion from the person involved, in my view. It bothers me that so many people – people who would see themselves as free thinkers, cannot welcome and value an event, or a person, without also seeing its shortcomings.
So in short – posts like the one you refer to piss me off major style 🙂
As a PS – if I wanted to go to something, I would not be stopped by not knowing anyone – that’s a mindset i can’t really get my head round either. I always assume that once i get there, I will come to known someone. May not LIKE them, but that’s not a requirement 🙂
Sorry Joyce, but with your writing being held in such high esteem round here, you’re well on your way to involuntary Guruhood {8¬{P}
Moreover, any self-deprecation on your part or attempts to point out your trials and tribulations and your handling of such, will only be interpreted as supporting evidence for your eventual canonisation as a bona fide real-world saint.
which list was this discussed on then? gah, I’m so nosy!!! Bet it’s on one I’m not a member of!
If I’d been to hesfes as my introduction to home ed, I probably would have run a mile! Although actually I’d never thought of HE as being a weird/hippy thing to do, only a terribly religious thing to do, as that’s the only place I’d come across it, people doing it for religious reasons.
We came to HE knowing it was allowed, contemplating it as a lifestyle choice, and Alison & Trog talked me into it on UKP. Then joined muddlepuddle and the rest is history. First met anyone irl (Alison, Kath, Layla are the ones I remember) at Okehampton in Jan 2003. Local lot here *were* all a bit weird at the time, well, I didn’t click with anyone, so didn’t get into the scene locally in the first year we HE’d.
Then went to MP summer camp that year at Kessingland, followed by Melrose 2004, then hesfes in 2004. I would *never* have contemplated hesfes without already knowing someone, although now I guess I might, I’ve changed a lot – I wouldn’t be so bothered by not even getting to know someone!
And now, locally, there is a much better and bigger group of people HEing and most of them are relatively normal. And this year *I* was the one trying to get them to Hesfes.
I agree, Jax, the idea that Hesfes is an introduction to HE is quite scary, and not at all true. Wonder if it makes a difference what ‘kind’ of HEor you are, iyswim, who your friends are, and whether or not you have internet access?
heschat, I think, Kirsty 🙂
Well, obviously *I* am perfect, Jonathan. I’m only really waiting for everyone else to realise it 🙂
For me it’s important to have HE friends to bounce ideas off and get advice from. It’s also nice if I know what they look like. I suspect I would not have chosen to HE if I hadn’t known people who already did. I think the pressure to “conform” and send my 2 to school would have been too much.
But, I’ve never been to any camps. I might get round to it at some point but the idea scares me now I’m single.
Hmm, well I did first get to meet a few muddle puddlers at Hesfes this year but it wouldn’t induce me to go back!! Muddle Puddle camp was much easier because it was smaller and I already “knew” some of you by email. all made much easier because Nic already had met a lot of you and I could hang on her coat tails so to speak. apart from the MuddlePuddle crowd I found Hesfes completely impenetrable – I had been relying on the “workshops” as advertised for the kids to be able to meet and get to know others but nothing we wanted to do ever happened. Even the newbies meet seemed to involve a load of people trying to stand around and not talk to anyone. I bounced up to someone I knew quite well from a couple of lists and got very rudely blanked which blew my confidence a lot and after that we just stuck with the Muddle Puddle set of tents. I’d never have gone back after the first day if I hadn’t been made so welcome by the MP’s and I’m not planning to go back to Hesfes again in a hurry. Too many people, too badly organised.
Locally I’ve met people thru EO and because Nic and I went out and advertised a new group and set it up.
P.S. If I had relied on Hesfes I’d have come away with an extremely poor impression of the home-ed community many of whom were extremely cliquey, unfriendly and uncaring about anyone other than themselves and their mates. I arrived as a rank outside, full of hope and enthusiasm and left feeling poorer and quite upset. I shall stop ranting now 🙂
Thats a shame Jenny, as with your age group of children, HESFES should erally ahve been a great thing.
We haven’t been, and I’m not in a hurry. Will prob start going when SB older and will get more out of it [? 6-8-ish]
I met HErs through joining the UKHE list originally, then HErs local to me. My initial impression of HErs was that they were a lovely open bunch of ppl.
That said, I find groups of ppl (the ‘great unknown’!) very scary, so I would never attempt a camp as large as HESFES. In fact, 4 years into HEing and knowing as many ppl as I now do, I still wouldn’t want to go to HESFES – its just too large, too impersonal, too busy. I know members of our local HE group that love it and wouldn’t miss it for the world but that said, they meet up with the same friends every year. They don’t just wing it, hoping to make friends. There are others in my local group that wouldn’t go unless they already knew someone or there were several of us from the group going which would make them feel comfortable.
I went camping with a bunch of HE folks earlier this year, only knowing 3 of the 14 families there but it was great. It was small enough so we all got chance to really get to know each other. Plus there weren’t too many kids so there wasn’t the potential for some being left out and no falling out.
From what I have heard of HESFES, it strikes me that it isn’t exactly stereotypical of HE in everyday life, nor representative of how most local HE groups would run. It is really a unique event in terms of its size and the activities arranged. Correct me if I am wrong here folks…..
I think Jax that if you wanted some stats, the only person to ask would be Andy who could probably tell you how many ‘repeat families’ attend, ages etc, if he keeps that kind of statistics (which I bet he does in some form or another).
I think your ranting is fascinating Jenny, please don’t stop on my account.
Thanks everyone for your contributions.
Think the first ppl I met irl were mainly mpers with a few local bods thrown in, at a meet in a softplay place in Sheffield. Janet Ford was the main instigator I think, but I’m going back ooh, um, three years? I was still working, Small was but a twinkle and Big was at nursery.
I’ve done mp summer three times now, once with a four week old baby in a static, and I barely knew anyone there, but found it a great way to get to know ppl. Neither year at Hesfes have I got to know anyone other than the ppl I already knew, which could be a downside of camping as a group. Oh, except stone carving geodesic dome man, not that he has responded to email re his website since 🙁
It disturbs me that there are ppl out there who think that Hesfes is the be all and end all, and that all other camps can and should just give way before its might. I think smaller camps are a far more likely way for ppl to get involved, although obviously keeping a camp small is kind of difficult. I have enjoyed Hesfes both times I’ve been, but not in the way I’ve enjoyed mp, summer or winter. I do think Hesfes is important, but I think every gathering of home educators is important, and Hesfes doesn’t stand out amongst the crowd.
Your post wasn’t there when I started my comment Claire!
Doubt that Andy keeps particularly detailed stats, and given my previous attempts at communication with him on small unimportant matters, not about to try to start that conversation!
hey, other Sarah, i’m sure you’d be fine at MP camp, we’re not that scary 😉
I think for me, in terms of what the word “camp” means, then I enjoy Melrose the best. Kessie is much more of a holiday (not a critisism, just a comment), but I don’t enjoy it as much, as I like my holidays with all my family, IYSWIM. Hesfes is neither a camp nor a holiday. It’s an – er – experience. In the way that Findhorn has experience weeks. You either love them or hate them, but most people not neutral.
I’d agree with that, Joyce. The year Steve came and we tried to make Kessie a family holiday, it just didn’t work for us personally, as what we want out of a family holiday is different to (a) Kessingland itself, and (b) what the kids and I appreciate out of a camp like Melrose or even hesfes. We are planning to do hesfes as a family next year though, so will have to wait and see how that goes!
Hi Sarah!
It’s not the people, it’s the Alone-with-2-children-and-no-walls thing that’s scary.
I first got in contact with groups on the net in about March 2004? Thank God I found EO and Muddle Puddle though. I loved the MP group and the blogs then when we had made up our mind on a decision for dd I started my own blog. Got to emailing Nic quite a lot because at the time I couldn’t leave comments on her blog for some reason. Then I heard all the chat about the camps and didn’t fancy HESFES at all as it came over as a ‘Glastonbury’ type of camp which I don’t think I would like. I also tried to go to local groups and started my own too – none of which came to anything – group dynamics in this area just don’t seem to work for me at the moment (or many other people either). Melrose for me was brilliant. Although dd still had to be supervised to a certain degree I was mainly free for the first time to actually be with others of like minds and knew that she was safe inside and couldn’t escape anywhere. Then we went to Kessingland but several reasons which I can’t blog (nothing to do with anyone on blogs!) I did not have a very good time – this does include dd’s hyper excitable state and her running off – getting better slightly now – but other things closer to home were dreadful. I knew only Nic before Melrose as she very bravely called here on the way up and stayed the night but other than that only knew people on blogs which I really enjoy being a part of. Not knowing people wouldn’t normally put me off going anywhere although I can be awkward and tongue twisted when trying to get to know people. Looking forward to Melrose though.
Mudpud list was my way in to the UK HE scene, and we went to Buxton camp soon after deciding to HE.
Our local HE group contains some of the kind of HEers one might expect to go to HESFES, but they don’t go, and I also know some Christian HEers who don’t go, so it wouldn’t have occurred to me to think of it as the be-all and end-all (that phrase looks really odd written)
If there are, as some people estimate, 150,000 children being HEd in the UK, that’s an awful lot who have nothing at all to do with HESFES.
I took a friend of mine to HESFES with her 5 yr old HE son the summer before P was due to start school. HE was being considered but when we got back from HESFES I enrolled her. HESFES sucks if you don’t know anyone and want to actually *do* something.
In our local group only one woman raves about HESFES but we’ve got another family who spend most the summer immersed in one folk festival after another but are totally uninterested in HESFES on the grounds of the organisational apathy.
This year was crap too and one afternoon S made an attempt to help P do some of the stuff on offer but it was either over-crowded, cancelled or not as billed. She enjoyed the social thing but much prefered MotB where you socialize but also *do* activities. I suppose it depends upon who you are and what you like really.
I think a fair proportion of the HE “community” would run for their lives from HESFES. I’m joining them 🙂
Found EO website, found MP website, found Yahoo MP and EO lists, found MP blogs, e-mailed Nic, met Nic and D and S, that’s it.
Next year will be our major year of meeting lots of other HEers and attending camp(s), I’m easing into it really gradually, but looking forward to it. I tend naturally to be a bit more of an onliner than a real-lifer in social terms generally, but I try consciously to redress that, especially for F, who probably wouldn’t get much soshelizashun from watching me enjoy other people’s blogs.
I joined the UKHE and EO lists in Jan or Feb 2001, and went to Hesfes that May – ‘knew’ a couple of people vaguely online, had just met a coupe of local people who were going (had booked my tickets before I started going to the local group), and had had a firm offer to help put my tent up (Abbie’s ‘boyfriend’s’ parents, whom I still consider friends).
Met some online people, and also talked to several brand new people. Tbh, I think that the more people I’ve known there (especially the last two years when I’ve camped with MP people), the more people I’ve met there, and to some extent, the more I’ve got out of *Hesfes*, rather than enjoying myself having a holiday with people I know, if that makes sense.
I do think that the *HE* bit of Hesfes is waning in importance as the *FES* bit waxes … but we’ll be there in 2006 for our 6th visit anyway, the kids wouldn’t have it any other way 🙂
Mmmmm….. only just found this.
The only thing that really put me off HESFES this year was the wet, the mud, the cold and the utter lack of interest in providing santation for people. It was so clearly only a FES, as Alison says, and as a FES, the crap toilets and bad conditions were somehow supposed to be justifiable. But if you say you are providing a place for Home Educators then that ought to be something safe and accessible for most people who’ll come, not something only really geared up for people who want to listen to bands and can manage to rough it. If its going to become a teenfes or an ex-he fes, fine – say so. It’d be understandable. Will i still be doing muddlepuddle camps when Josie goes past 8? Probably not.
If its going to be warmer in June, i’ll probably give it a go again, i’d gone the previous two years and struggled but felt rewarded the first time, loved it the second. Third time i was less annoyed by the reality than i was by the disregard for peoples’ needs once reality struck. That goes for Robin and organisers. They “could” have hired in toilets, they’d done it before.
I only know of 2 other people from my local area who go and to say its where everything to do with HE happens and where people meet is a bit laughable. I can’t think of more than a tiny handful of people who i think of as epitomised by HESFES. I can think of loads of people who do it but only “because” and loads who wouldn’t even consider it. My first year i made friends with 2 couples dead opposite me, one of whom i’ve seen once since and Alison. I’d have died on my posterior without Alison to help me but i only got to know her because she was persistant enough to keep being friendly when i was feeling shy and overawed. I’d never have found her if she’s felt like i did.
And i’m in imminent danger of battering the 15 year old on HESCHAT! 😀
I’d join in, she’s irritating. 😉
We tried (and failed) to make HESFES last year. I doubt if we’ll try again – after the disaster last year (starting with the “flat” field but certainly not ending there), I have no faith in the organisers. But that’s not my point, which is that for us, one of the huge attractions of HESFES was indeed the opportunity to meet other home-educators, many of whom I’d known on-line for some time but never had the chance to meet in person. There are few HE’ers here – I think the nearest home-ed family (excluding the fundamentalists, who don’t want to know us anyway) is probably at least an hour away. And other camps – well, shorter camps simply aren’t a possibility for us – it’s so expensive to get to them when you have to add in a couple of hundred pounds for a ferry before you even start. And smaller camps wouldn’t allow us to meet many of the people we’d like to meet – HESFES would have done that.
So while HESFES would not have been an introduction to HE, it would indeed have been our chance to meet many more home-educators than we do here.
As for the FES becoming more important than the HES – tbh, I suspect that other similarly-sized FESes are probably much better-organised than HESFES, at least in terms of the facilities.
Ooh, nearly missed this. And I seem to feature so heavily in it too 😉 😉
I was somehow aware of HE just after I had Davies – so 5 years ago – when I got all active on parenting sites and newsgroups. I considered it briefly while in that newborn babymoon phase where you cannot imagine ever being parted from your child and then quickly wrote it off as something I would *never* do.
I came back to it again when Davies was hating daycare nursery aged 2 and started to look into it properly. I already *knew* Alison and June through UKPP newsgroup (and Chris/Helen too although had not associated them with HE) and they directed me to muddlepuddle.
The first people I met IRL were those at London last Sept (Jax, Alison, Layla, Barbara, Jan, Sarah, sorry if I’ve missed anyone out, it was a bit of a blur!) and then everyone at Melrose. I had met Jenny a couple of times before we started up our local group and also met Ros through that before Melrose. Through local stuff and blogging have also met Ali IRL although I now consider most of these friendships to be ‘real life’ ones rather than Home Ed ones.
I think I only heard of HESFES when everyone stopped blogging last May because they were there. I probably had few preconceptions about what HE folk would be like before we started and have even less now! HESFES was pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. All I was worried about came true and all I was looking forward to also came true. I think it is very inaccurate to describe it as ‘the’ HE event, a good way to start or anything other than what it is.
I do value my RL HE friendships very much but I would have happily gone along to HESFES even knowing no one if I had stumbled across it given the way it is refered to. I am glad that was not the case as I think I may have run screaming from the field 😉 I spent the second half of last year working very hard to ensure that me and the children had a network of HE friends – locally and nationally – to give us that resource and I think it has paid off. I would hate to be a shy or retiring person trying to HE, I think it would be pretty hard as there is a lot of putting yourself into the middle of a ‘strange’ group of people and trying to find your place. Much worse than the first day of school IMHO!