How do you get from no structure to sats

in one quick year?

Today I had the children do a Level 3 Sats Maths paper. Earlier this year they were doing nothing structured at all while I waited for them to deschool, so how and why have we got all the way to Sats papers?

It’s for my confidence I’m afraid. A thing that sometimes doesn’t get said, I suspect for fear of letting the HE side down, is that not all children have fantastic overwhelming interests and occupy themselves autonomously in projects that seem (or can be written up as 😉 ) educational from morning to night. Perhaps this too is my fault for having sent Big to nursery at the age of 14 weeks, perhaps the externally imposed structure from an early age removed any self direction she might have developed. Certainly her brother is very capable of occupying himself and you can see him learning all over the place, and he didn’t go to (a very different) nursery until he was 2 1/2.

I don’t believe that’s the case though. Big is a child who wants and needs a lot of input from the adults around her, always has, and I suspect always will. On balance I don’t think nursery adversely affected that, but then I suppose I wouldn’t would I? I do recall another friend once stating in some exasperation “I am not an entertainment machine”, and there have been many times in the last nearly 10 years when I’ve felt that too.

And this is after trying a wealth of different approaches. After nursery there were a couple of years before flexi-schooling started, when I was at home full time with Big and Small. We went to home ed groups and camps, I strewed the house with workbooks, imported enough fact and fiction to open my own library, stocked the shelves with art stuff and science kits and demonstrated crafts left, right and centre. Nothing has really taken her fancy for more than a few days here and there. We’ve visited castles, museums, science sites, houses, done workshops, learnt to make baskets, attended forest schools and nature reserves, supplied instruments and activities and still nothing has really taken off.

So, structure and Sats. Partly because I was worried that if school ever became a factor my lovely bright daughter would be left wallowing behind her age mates, and partly because I felt that I was letting her down and failing in my legal duty to offer that suitable education.

What is a suitable education in my eyes? What was I failing to achieve? When it comes down to it, I don’t think that the facts that children may or may not acquire at primary school are particularly important. If you wish to learn information, you will do that when it’s important or relevant to you. Atm very little appears to fall into those categories for Big, and that’s fine.

Basic skills, to my mind, the foundation of education, are a different story. I know that children learn in fits and starts and that it works better when they are interested in something, but Big doesn’t seem to have those fits and starts very often, and she definitely isn’t interested in maths. Or English in terms of grammar, spelling or handwriting, and I’ve gotten way too jumpy to wait any longer. Plus attitudinally she deteriorates when she is not occupied, whereas when I enforce some kind of structure that tends to spill over and she becomes more productive the rest of the time as well. So atm she’s reading lots about Anne Frank, as detailed below. And because they both managed to acquire computer bans, they’ve actually played together without screens between them, which has meant tempers all around have been much more pleasant.

Last week we did the Sats level 2 paper, and they both achieved level 2A. Today we did the level 3 paper, and despite much stress caused purely by neither of them listening to me, they both sailed through for a level 3. This taught me a couple of things. I have immensely perfectionist children who get terribly stressed by things they feel they can’t do, despite me explaining over and over that this exercise was so that I could find out what areas they needed help in and I didn’t expect them to be able to do it all. And also that the national attainment levels really aren’t set very high. Small has just achieved beyond expectations for his age with very little tuition, and I suspect that if I could get Big to calmly attempt the KS2 papers, she wouldn’t acquit herself so badly either, even though maths is definitely not her strength.

So I feel reassured that a knock on the door from a LA inspector could be repulsed without me having to make anything up. They are certainly not receiving a worse education than they would in a local state school, and when it comes down to it, they may well be doing better. And I know where the gaps are in their skillset and what I need to cover over the coming days and weeks.

If I’d left it longer would Big have developed interests and started learning autonomously? I’ll never know I’m afraid, but there are still many hours in every day that I’m not filling for them, and I am following their interests as far as possible in the structure that I’m employing. So perhaps as the years go by, they will become more self-directed and I’ll be able to step back into a facilitation role. We can but wait and see. And blog it of course 🙂

Comments

29 responses to “How do you get from no structure to sats”

  1. you know jax, i think it is best to follow what seems to work as a family, and allow opportunities for working styles and patterns to vary as they seem fit for purpose. at present, it seems some structure for big is the right thing, it may be that she will move on from this to autonomy, or ask for more fixed structure. HE is a flexible thing, and i think the importance is to be open to diff ways. hugs
    .-= HelenHaricot´s last blog ..By: HelenJ =-.

  2. by my own admission I could never wait long enough for any autonomy to kick in either – my lot were never good at occupying themselves either – I also used to blame it on myself but didn’t ever care enough about the concept of autonomy to wait it out!
    And now, to be honest, Josiah has *SO* much structure imposed that it’s untrue – but he’s thriving on it.
    .-= Sarah´s last blog ..Disobeying orders =-.

  3. Ditto above; strangely enough, giving my children a structure, albeit a loose one with options and alternatives has meant they do occupy themselves well but that has been a long slow process. I started F on it at 6, as you well know, and the others have followed behind and it is really now that it works well enough to trust and be comfortable with.
    Glad they’ve given you some confidence anyway.

  4. I think the militantly autonomous brigade have a lot to answer for I’m afraid. The whole idea of home ed is that you do what suits your child, at that point in time, and be willing to change your aproach to fit what they need as time goes on. Now, for some that may well mean happily feral children who really only need a parent to provide the raw materials from which they can craft their own lives, but not for all. Some of us have children who need sense and structure to hang their lives off. I think most of us have children somewhere in between the two extremes, a little bit of structured work and a little bit of free time to explore and find out what they may be interested in suits them just fine.

  5. Ooh, who are the militantly autonomous brigade? I’d love to meet them! Our L is sitting down to at least one page of maths and English workbook every day now. Her choice – perhaps that makes us militantly autonomous?!
    Isn’t it the case that if children want structure, then that’s autonomous? I’ve also learned that some children (autonomously) often don’t want to be autonomous! They like having decisions made for them! LOL.
    But seriously, I think this CSF bill has come as a nasty threat to us all, hasn’t it? I’m finding it hard to resist the urge to pull out SATs tests to try as well, but attending policy meetings with the LA staff who deal with HE here has reassured me a lot – at least we know each other now, so the prospect of having to deal with them in a personal capacity later isn’t so scary.
    .-= Gill´s last blog .. =-.

  6. 🙂 Sounds like Big and Small are doing well 🙂
    Pah to labels, you do what is best for YOUR children.
    I love the philosophy of automonous learning, mind, it is pretty easy with an almost 3yr old lol I could never be a radical unschooler though – there are some skills I firmly believe are important for Rye to learn sooner than later – i.e. reading and writing. In my opinion it will enhance is ability to learn automonously as he gets older (lol, I don’t mind I expect him to be reading now.. but by say 6yrs old and writing well by around 8yrs old)
    Joxy.

  7. I think an autonomous education is one which is primarily focussed on your childs needs at the time. That can definitely include structure – autonomous adults often submit themselves to structured environments- classes, workplaces, clubs. The point is that when it stops working you dump the structure and not force the kid to stick with it.

  8. @Gill but Big frequently says she doesn’t want to do what I’m asking her to do – it’s my opinion that she needs it, as everything else is better around it, but she doesn’t think she wants it. Is it autonomous to answer their needs or their wants?
    I did find the Sat paper exercise interesting, and like I say, it was surprisingly successful. We will be continuing with occasional testing so that I know how we are doing against an external benchmark, although I’m not following NC at all – I choose the resources that fit with my idea of suitable ed instead.
    I confess that when I wrote this I was hoping for some debate around autonomous and wants and needs – perhaps I argued my case too well? 😉

  9. “Is it autonomous to answer their needs or their wants?”
    Ooh I dunno. That’s the bit I struggle with! (Amongst other bits..) I must say that Joxy’s ‘Pah to labels’ is a very attractive sentiment! But if you want to discuss the semantics of autonomy, I’m probably up for that – albeit with my still (3-years later) childbirth-addled brain.
    OK, I’ll bite the bullet by saying that Big being made to do something she doesn’t want to do wouldn’t be an autonomous act on her part – but I suppose you don’t need me to tell you that! And it’s not necessarily a bad thing IMO, although if there is a lot of conflict between what you think she needs and what she thinks she needs (how are you differentiating ‘wants’ from needs’ BTW? Just wondered.) then I’d probably be exploring the roots of that conflict with her, which no doubt you are.
    Very happy to discuss more about autonomous wants and needs when I understand your definition of the difference between the two. I must admit, I struggle to see one, but that’s probably just me.. 🙂

  10. “wants” her expressed desires – as in “I hate this book” clearly shows she doesn’t want to do it.
    “needs” the things I have discovered improve her overall level of happiness – so although she may say that she hates something, I insist on it happening, and her overall attitude/ level of happiness is better.
    nak so sorry if it makes no sense!

  11. oh and ps there was someone being militantly autonomous over on UK-HE earlier, saying that “parent’s decisions” and “putting child in for exams” wasn’t HE.

  12. Oh right – I wondered where the militancy came from! Thanks for filling me in there.
    Anyway, I think we’ve got a similar dilemma here. Lyddie wants to be able to read certain books, but doesn’t have the skill to do so because she hasn’t done the work to develop the skill, so I do everything I can to help her do the work to develop the skill, but she doesn’t really want to do it and yet she wants to be able to read the books! So the conflict is in her own head really, rather than between the two of us, and all I can do is to try to make the hard work bit as easy as possible for her, when she can bring herself to do it.
    Is it all about the motivation, do you think? Extrinsic v. intrinsic? It’s what I keep coming back to, though the dreaded CSF bill seems to be trying to outlaw the intrinsic variety. 🙁
    .-= Gill´s last blog .. =-.

  13. Ooh *thinking more* – and maybe the intrinsic will to learn comes from the need to resolve those kinds of internal conflicts?
    .-= Gill´s last blog .. =-.

  14. hm, so by doing the reading stuff with Big when she was where Lyddie is at now, that could have been our problem – ie we did eventually resort to requiring her to practise. Perhaps that set the pattern. Not a question we’re ever goimg to get a definitive answer too though.

  15. Blimey, am I an autonomous militant? I think we all have to find our own ways and take responsibility for the decisions we make/don’t make. If someone tells me that I’m not “doing it properly” if I don’t sit my kids down with workbooks then that’s fine. I don’t have to take any notice of them, do I? I certainly wouldn’t say that they had to “answer for” it if I found myself unhappily ploughing through life because I took their advice. We make our own choices.
    Autonomy is complex, isn’t it? None of us make our choices in social isolation. As my children get older we have perfectly up-front conversations about skills and qualifications. This means that one of my children is currently working on a five year plan to get five GCSEs. It is her choice – at the moment. I don’t (can’t) *make* her do any work on that plan and I don’t (can’t) *reward* her for what she does. It’s her plan for her life – at the moment. It takes encouragement and support from us at times – in the form of hugs and cups of tea – but that’s just life isn’t it? I’m all for intrinsic motivation but sometimes we all need a bit of support in the choices we make. If she says, tomorrow, that she’s chucking it in then we’d have an upfront conversation about the possible consequences of that and about other options available to her. But I’m not into *making* my kids do anything. If I can’t make a good case for something then they don’t do it. I guess that might be more about parenting style than anything really. Gosh, sorry for blogging in your comments box. Something touched a nerve…
    Anyway, Jax, isn’t this all a bit heavy for new baby Christmas land?? Break out the glitter glue 😉

  16. Aaargh! Typed a long message and it’s disappeared. Probably all useless waffle anyway…

  17. Why am I falling down the spam filter, I wonder?

  18. found Allie and Sarah languishing in the spam filter.
    It is a bit heavy Allie, but it’s reflective of life around here atm and I needed to offload – thanks for sharing your thoughts at such length, I shall ponder them 🙂
    It is the wants/ needs division – I suppose there are times when I feel that they conflict for Big, and that I know better than she does what she needs. I would hope over the years that she will begin to learn the difference and identify and satisfy her needs herself.

  19. I agree with Sarah and Allie.
    Re this though:
    “hm, so by doing the reading stuff with Big when she was where Lyddie is at now, that could have been our problem – ie we did eventually resort to requiring her to practise. Perhaps that set the pattern.”
    Possibly, but I don’t think it’s ever irreversible, judging by my older three, although there are still some motivational issues and conflicts there in them. Certainly it seems to be easier to resolve those as early as possible though.
    But let’s not beat ourselves up about doing the best thing we can for our children at the time, with the info we have available then and a lot of good intent etc.! It’s something I try not to do and I don’t really know what will change here if clause 26 stays in the CSF bill and is passed, but I suspect some things will.
    .-= Gill´s last blog .. =-.

  20. a side thought – one of the great things about HEing is that my kids arn’t compaired with 20plus others all the time.
    The down side is – there is noone else to compare them with, and I’m begining to realise, that makes it a little difficult sometimes to evalutate the whole ‘potential’ thing and if I am doing all /need to do anything on that score…
    mentioning because i got some sats papers off my maths teacher BIL recently also to see where they’ve ended up skills/confidence/etc wise too!
    .-= mamacrow´s last blog ..November non topic round up… =-.

  21. I don’t know the answer to it all, Jax, but I know that I felt in a very similar position with T. There wasn’t much of anything going on unless I made it happen.

  22. Quite a lot of what I’d say about autonomy and autonomous learning has already been said by others. Just a little addition. My three children are so completely different to each other in their learning styles, that I found myself explaining to other people why I was still calling myself an autonomous learner, even though I seemed to give one of my dc a lot of sit-down and do the given work and structure. The way I look at it is that I as the adult and parent observe and analyse before I know how to facilitate one particular child.
    I recognize the difference between “need” and “want”, but I’d say it differs per child.
    With my youngest, for instance, there is hardly any difference between need and want.
    With my oldest, the two are sometimes completely opposite and it takes a lot of communicating and also often conflict to find the best way of accommodating her learning.
    With my son, I’ve learned to see what his wants tell me about his needs.
    Some children know for themselves the difference between wants and needs, others might need some guidance.
    Instead of calling it wants and needs, I like to call it the open and the hidden questions, it sounds less demanding ;). And I think my most important “tool” to distinguish between the two is my intuition. The kind of intuition that tells you whether your baby is crying from hunger, pain, distress, fatigue, boredom or something else.
    In my view both open and hidden questions should be listened to and acted upon. Some children express their questions through words, others through behaviour or sometimes even through illness.
    I think the biggest advantage of home education over school is that we can act on both the open and the hidden questions, because we are in a position to discover both. How exactly we choose to act upon them is entirely up to us and I feel that the great majority of parents is able and capable of doing it in a way that suits both the individual child and the family the best.
    BTW, I saw the exchange on UKHE and was completely baffled. I *can* imagine that the term “autonomous militant” stems from that.
    .-= mieke´s last blog ..The Final Petition =-.

  23. Erm, I hope it goes without saying that when I say that I “observe and analyse” it most certainly includes “listen to the child”. The observing is not a one way thing.
    .-= mieke´s last blog ..The Final Petition =-.

  24. Could you be more creative in how the structure is presented? If you think she needs to learn such and such, but professes dislike – can you engage her at a different level – can it be achieved through a game for instance rather than worksheets?
    Does she have an interest you can use to engage? For instance you mentioned she’s enjoying reading about Ann Frank at the moment – can you use that?

  25. Mieke, those are words of wisdom, I think. You put things so very well.
    Two more quicks thoughts on this, Jax…
    First, is there a way to give Big what she needs in such a way that it is also what she wants? I know this is probably grandmother egg sucking territory but I think it’s easy to forget how many ways there are to tackle any bit of learning. I can’t imagine it’s possible to be coming up with very elaborate plans when you’ve got your hands so full but maybe stuff like a board game rather than a sheet of paper – film making rather than a writing exercise – a walk and a talk rather than a solitary exercise with a pen??
    Secondly, girls change really fast during the years that your Big is entering. I have learned that sometimes I really think I know something about what our daughter needs and then I find I really don’t – because she has changed. Not very comforting, possibly, but also quite exciting.

  26. Not meaning to be argumentative at all, and with the greatest respect, I don’t think using a heavily laden term such as ‘militantly autonomous brigade’ is very helpful. It makes it sound as though those of us who do use an autonomous approach are somewhow trying to foist it on others. Now, that wouldn’t be very autonomous, would it?;-)
    When I first started to think about HE I read John Holt and was very taken with his ideas, and decided to do things a certain way ie a bit of structure and a bit of autonomy. I’m one of those who has had autonomy thrust on me by my children. They run a mile from anything overtly educational. For me it’s all about everyone’s needs including my own. I have to examine what my needs are, or what I *think* they are, and decide whether they are worth acting on. I think Gill is right when she talks about this dratted bill and where it has taken us (me, my children and other Hedders). It has really rattled me, the thought of having to prove and show and demonstrate. This has led me down the path of trying to ‘put things in place’ now in order to be able to comfortably continue with them if the worst comes to the worst. So that’s about my needs, not my children’s, but it’s also about ensuring that we *can* continue to home ed. Tricky. I’ve found myself in the position lately of a lot of other parents I know doing the same ie moving to more structure, and while we as a family have slipped back to doing less structure, others have carried on with it, which has left me feeling isolated and feeling ‘well, if everyone else is doing it, they must be right and I must be wrong’.I don’t have any answers except to look at my own children and help them to find their own level of achieving what they need to.

  27. hmmmm. how did i miss out on this debate? LOL!
    I like to imagine what I might think about educative necessity, autonomy, wants and needs from inside a cultural vacuum where there are no pressures upon me that say my child should read at x age, or write at x age, or write at all even! A place where math is not a separate thing, but a set of well embedded skills that you gain when you find yourself using them to solve a real problem.
    In that vacuum I’d be a luddite of sorts … an “if you don’t use it, what’s it for?” theorist. A “Oh, I need that skill, best go get it” theorist. What does it matter (except for inspection purposes) if you learn to read at what ever age? I don’t suppose you’ll continue resisting learning the skill if you need it. I don’t suppose any child (disabilities excepted) will fail to learn what they need to learn in order to fulfill their needs and wishes, as long as they feel empowered to do so by the trust they have experienced/gained/retained in their judgment of what is necessary and important to them.
    We need to put a large pink, protective tower around what we do, especially right now, and trust that our children have the most investment in their education and future. Once the pink tower is there then maybe we can decide what is necessary, and if our children are convinced of the same, maybe they will find themselves learning it? Better still, we could get on with the necessary learning/skill gathering we need to do in life and live alongside our kids (who often seem to suddenly want to do whatever you are involved in anyway!)
    In reality, a home educated child doesn’t need to learn to read until they feel the need. They can find many ways to learn and have plenty folks around them to read stuff for them (unlike in the school setting, where we get our cultural ‘necessity’ to read before 8). Besides, I found that Lani learned to read without ever doing any noticeable reading, and despite her deep resistance to it. It just seems to filter in there unwittingly, despite her possibly disabilities with reading, even. She doesn’t read Harry Potter level yet, but I know of HE kids who didn’t read until 13 or so, but who were quickly reading the same level of text as others of the same age who had been reading from 5.
    Until we can escape our cultural context how can we begin to trust that a person’s wants are also generally their needs?
    Sometimes we think their needs are the opposite to their wants because our own experience of their company improves when they are doing what we want. I find it very difficult to differentiate between what is really my own happiness with a situation (where intuition is concerned) and the objective fact of another person’s happiness. What we observe of others is always a form of projection and is always subjective.
    I do suspect they know what they need as long as we don’t divert them.
    My friend has an eldest daughter who seems a lot how you describe Big, Jax. Her focus is socialising, and it always has been. Maybe that really is what she needs, but it doesn’t fit with what our society says she needs. I don’t suppose Big will leave herself illiterate and uneducated. What possible reason could she have to do so, apart from rebellion?
    I apologize for my radical belief in autonomy. I think militant requires some sort of action, maybe an action intended to impose a philosophy. Radical will do me.
    😀
    .-= sally´s last blog ..Daily Journal: 7th – 9th Dec. =-.

  28. @Liz sorry for the delay on your comment showing up, my spam filter seems rather aggressive atm!
    wrt the “militantly autonomous brigade” as I said, there are examples of it around which do other autonomous educators no favours. Such as the recent exchange on UKHE where someone describing putting a child in for an exam was told that that wasn’t home education. It is, although it may not be autonomous (it might be autonomous as well, and just badly phrased!)
    Also, I’ve come across structured home educators who felt they could not describe how they home educate on local lists for fear of criticism by ppl describing themselves as autonomous, and I think that too is very sad. I prefer this kind of discussion where we are all respecting of each other’s approaches and open to hints, tips and exploring opinions.
    It was reading John Holt that led me to choose home education before I even had children to home educate. I find it quite painful to have to move away from what I understand autonomy to be, but it really doesn’t result in a happy household here, so structure, for the moment, it is.

  29. I’ve heard people talk about structured home edders being reluctant to post about what they do, but the same is also true of autonomous home edders. I, for one, have stopped posting about anything vaguely autonomous, unstructured or unschooling on any of the local groups I’m on as it seems to be viewed as being synonymous with neglect. Maybe it just depends what one’s local group is like. I can’t seem to get my thoughts straight on the subject at the moment, but I suppose my fear is that if we start splitting ourselves up into labelled groups we lose the chance to learn from each other. I have friends of all kinds of ‘educational persuasion’ and strive to find commonalities rather than differences (jeez, aren’t I a saint?;-)). It is true though, and worth repeating ad infinitum, that we all do what we consider to be the best for our families.

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