The Observer | Comment | Henry Porter: How we move ever closer to becoming a totalitarian state
What I saw in Committee A was the triumph of Tony Blair’s modernity over liberty.
Read it and weep. Then dry your eyes and do something about it. Write to your mp, registering your displeasure. Blog in the hope that other ppl will do the same. Talk to ppl at work. Start a petition. Whatever else you do, don’t just let it pass you by.
There is little point fighting specific legislation that will affect minorities when laws are approaching that will curtail us all. Liberty is important. Self-determination is important. Democracy is important – but to do the will of the ppl, not perform some mythical best for them. We do not need to be looked after, each and every one of us does that for ourselves and our families, and we have the Human Rights to do that.
Stand up for them.
The Second Reading debate, 9th February 2006: Orders of the Day — Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill
The preceding Point of Order is related, as it pertains to the constitutional impact of the Bill.
If you’re really geeky about it, you can read the minutes of the progress of the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill in Standing Committee A.
D’ya know, what is the point? It seems as if it’s impossible to galvanise people to do something to protect their own *minority*, so how can we ever expect people to do anything to protect the country’s freedom as a whole?
I’ve drawn the conclusion these last few days, that this country and it’s people probably deserve everything that’s coming to us. Maybe this is something we have to live through before we can find the fighting spirit that our country is supposedly renowned for?
I have just written to my MP though 😉
I think, if he is hoping to galvanise people, rather than just appear to rant at the governemnt, he might have to write an article that means something. My brain glazed over by 1/3 of the way in, which is presumably what he is saying he thinks the government bank on.I even read it twice and i still didn’t feel like i had any specifics of what was the actual problem.
I’ll summarise it later, put up the libdems response, and suggest courses of action.
I’m not going to put this on uk-home-ed, but I do have another idea as to what I’m going to do with it.
I’m sick of Bliar and his cronies thinking they can ride roughshod over our liberties by making it sound overly complicated doing something about it. There was positive political news today, I’ll blog about that too.
But first I must spend time with the reason this *is* all worth it Tech – my children.
I know you haven’t forgotten that – I applaud your efforts elsewhere on other subjects. But the reason we fight on is so that even if we lose, we can look our children in the eye and say we tried. We did not say “first they came…and I did not speak out…”
You see, there was a reason why I felt compelled to ask that question here, I knew I’d get a reminder 😀
http://www.libertycentral.org.uk/content/view/2/41/ spotted at The Current Outlook, might be interesting.
Will look forward to reading your thoughts later.
“I’m sick of Bliar and his cronies thinking they can ride roughshod over our liberties by making it sound overly complicated doing something about it.”
I’m not defending them, i didn’t vote for them last time round, but seriously, if any of the other 2 parties who conceivably could get in, had got in, do you think they’d be different? Genuine question.
I knew several people when i was still working who ranted and ranted for a Labour Government then became their biggest critics pretty soon after. And saying that is because they “are real Labour” won’t really wash because no one else is and they only changed because no one was voting for old style Labour.
If the last 5 years had been the same in terms of events, but one other party had been in government, what do you believe would be different?
From what I can tell the liberals would start out different. (I have absolutely no faith in David Cameron being the slightest bit different) Whether they would be different after five years in power is up for debate…but we need a change, and we can’t say no just because we think they might end up as bad. Proportional representation would help. There’s an interesting report on the bbc today about some report from some foundation or other about how to increase political participation, and that includes PR.
The libdems say that they were against the war, they are against ID cards, and are fighting the constant introduction of legislation that curtails our liberties. I’d give them a chance, although I’m not nearly as sure of them after all the furore with Charles Kennedy and his successors.
Two penneth worth, as always not with the plot: I remember how hellishly depressing life was when the tories were last in..but also how absolutely fabulous it was bucking against them. I was so depressed when it became obvious that Tony Blair is inane and weasely. The only reason that the Labour party got in was because the tories were such hell to live with…but all that energy we got from deciding we were not going to put up with it, it was bwilliant (yes, I am Rick from the young ones).
It’ll be okay, nobody panic, we’ve had worse from better. Just bring your kids up to still have the fighting spirit and there will at least be a small posse to swing things around in the future. And erm..well, a bit of rioting never goes amiss. I know for sure that at least one of my kids is destined to be a revolutionary (the others being a mad professor and a rock star).
Merry, I’m with you. The article was a nightmare of rhetorical fallacies.
It builds an ad hominem argument against Mr Blair and the government by using words such as “unscrutinised”, “totalitarian”, “frightening”, “demonically”, “unscrupulous”, “disgraceful” and “Kafkaesque”.
Then it is easy to construct the slippery slope argument that if this bill is passed, that nothing of import to the British Constitution will ever be debated in House of Commons again.
The article works up fear that “centuries of precedents” and “historic rights of British culture” might change.
This is despite the argument built that Mr Blair is a moderniser and most people agree this [but ignoring that they voted him in 3 times in a row because of, or inspite of this].
Mr Blair equates modernity with applying reason to a country displaying a “Hogarthian panorama of delinquency and unreason”, and he is well-intentioned.
The article author suggests that the limited period that Mr Blair has in his role will be affecting his judgement.
Now if the author actually described the bill, listed the questions that need to be answered, and then discussed possible outcomes of it passing without the colourful language then it would not have raised so many eyebrows or blood pressures, and we might have a better idea of what the issues are and what we might do about them.
We do not live in a totalitarian society. We are free to suggesting that politicians actions are inspired by the devil, without fear of reprisal. We are free to oppose the state, oppose the government and free to vote them out in regular elections.
I do agree though that there are failings in our society. But in my opinion, argument using colourful language, fear and hyperbole without facts instead of facts and rational thought is probably the worst.
I remember not being able to believe that people couldn’t see through Blair in the run up to the 1997 election.
Everything he said was a lie. I think he got away with it by telling people what they wanted to hear and what they wanted to believe. That is how most other con artists work.
I also remember asking people why they would vote for someone like that. The answer I got was not that life was depressing, it was that they were bored. Nothing more than that. Elderfairy, I can’t speak for you and how John Major’s period as Prime Minister effected you, but with a flourishing economy, by and large, for most people things were really going pretty well.
Blair may be weasely but is absolutely not inane.
Invading a sovereign foreign country with no legal basis merely in order to steal their assets is not inane.
Crafting a law which will abolish all the rights and freedoms set out in Magna Carta and won at the cost of blood over the 800 years since is not inane.
Throwing away everything the Labour movement has ever achieved and worked for is not inane.
Suborning the Labour Party so that it now works solely for the benefit of Blair, Brown and the pack of upper middle class power junkies who trail dutifully at their heels is not inane.
We may have had worse, but not in my lifetime, not in yours, not in generations.
“We are free to oppose the state, oppose the government and free to vote them out in regular elections.”
Well, I’ve been trying to do that for years and it hasn’t worked yet. As you’ll see in tonight’s post, less ppl voted for the government than didn’t even turn out to vote, they were returned by a vote of approx 20% of the electorate. That did not include me. I am not represented, despite voting. What am I supposed to do? My MP thinks her job is to represent the party line, so she isn’t going to be much help either.
And we’re not all that free. Pop off and try to hold a peaceful protest in Parliament Square and see how free you feel then. Did you watch Dispatches last week? Various ppl weren’t feeling too free then either, even to just hold their own opinions.
Coo, politics really gets the blood going doesn’t it?
The bottom line is that this is a bad bill. Whether you like the article or not, and I’m surprised by how much ppl don’t, I thought it was pretty clear, it’s time to fight back.
I have to say that I feel somewhat renewed having read Tim’s and your’s firey passion about this subject 🙂
Oh and I have to say, for the record, that I too have never been taken in by the Bliar. I also don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell of being represented under the current system, living in a die hard tory area. Let’s get those 2million signed up!
Well, I’m glad that we’ve done good somewhere here tonight.
Want to start a petition then?
“Well, I’ve been trying to do that for years and it hasn’t worked yet!”
If you hold a minority view then your view will not win in elections. First past the post is one of the glorious British traditions. Been going 100s of years. Do you wish to dismantle the foundations of our political society?
If you want your view to win under the current rules then you must persuade someone to stand who holds them, and then you have the task of persuading all those constituents to vote for them.
” I am not represented, despite voting.”
You are represented. Your MP is obliged to hear you. It doesnt matter if you voted for them, for the opposition or not at all. You are represented. If you and a substantial number of your fellow constituents have a grievance then your MP is obliged to look into it and act.
But again we are back to the substantial number of constituents – you need to build the number of people who share your view.
I just don’t think it is clear. It doesn’t give any specifics – i can nod along and get annoyed over an article that says “x,y and z is happening, here is why it is a bad idea” but honestly, i felt that article was only speaking to people who already knew they hated the government. I didn’t read that, and i really did try, and have any clue as to what was changing, what freedoms were being eroded, what the bill would alter or how it would affect me.
It isn’t so much that i’m apathetic, though i lack interest in politics really because i see little opportunity to backtrack, more that i simply don’t believe anyone would be doing anything any different. I think the minute 9/11 happened and it would have happened whether we had Labour, Tory or Liberal in government, it gave our government carte blanche to tighten up our freedoms in the name of security. And let’s face it, they get hung whatever; if they erode freedoms, it’s bad, if something happens that only happened because it is possible to have a free and subversive thought in this country, they are picked to pieces by the media to see if they’ve negligently not protected us from it.
If a 9/11 happened in London today, the media frenzy within days would be “why were these people here, were they living off our taxes, did MI5 know, had they ever been in Police custody, how had they downloaded bomb making info from British servers, how had we not spotted they were in contact with other known dissenters.” All things which we cheerfully outrage against as being abhorrent to the culture of freedom. But part of my freedom is being able to believe that i live somewhere safer than average, in a culture where we don’t willfully imprison on a whim but we don’t stand side and watch people prepare to do damage either. Part of my freedom would be to live in a country where i need not be afraid of dissenter or government. But let’s face it, they will always provoke one another to damage; it seems to be human nature to fight and control.
We want our cake and eat it in this country, which might be all very well but it doesn’t actually make legislating for the populace a particularly clear job. And wearily, i’m of the opinion that if governing a country was easy, more people would do it better. But i don’t think there can be a country in the world where a population believe they are being perfectly run.
If it is apathetic to concentrate on the small, then yes i am. The things that make a daily difference to my children; decent midwifery, the right to home educate, the right to know their parents won’t get carted off because of a lifestyle choice or a political stance, the right to know that their world won’t be untenably polluted by their adulthood. The right to watch television as adults and not cry as dying sisters carry starving baby sisters on to a camp where food has already run out. There are places in the world where writing this blog would mean you never saw the light outside a prison cell again; i’m sorry, but i don’t believe Britain is even on the same pathway as places like that. There are places where government spending on arms and the rich means the food runs out in a weeks time. Honestly, i simply can’t get a bitter taste in my mouth about Britain in comparison. Maybe i’m blinkered, maybe i’m not cynical enough. I don’t know. I think there is a middle line though.
“First past the post is one of the glorious British traditions. Been going 100s of years. Do you wish to dismantle the foundations of our political society?”
Absolutely! First past the post may have been a glorious tradtion, but it’s outdated and needs changing to a fairer, more representative system. The problems with FPTP are so glaringly obvious I’m going to assume you are playing devil’s advocate.
And yes Jax, I’m up for a petition!
Well, i’d agree with that. Some traditions are nice to keep (i quite like having royalty, however poitless and expensive they are… lol) but a political system that was thought up when we had a population of a few 100,000 and the people who disagreed with it weren’r entitled to vote anyway, probably does need changing.
Jax said:
Perhaps the most enjoyable thing a human can experience. Simmer gently to keep the taste, steam if you can, but if you must boil, make it quick.
🙂
Okay, Tim. I admit it..I now haven’t got a clue what ‘inane’ means because I always thought Blair was it but he’s obviously not judging by your comment! Okay, how about that he’s a creep? Right..where’s my dictionary?
“You are represented. Your MP is obliged to hear you. It doesnt matter if you voted for them, for the opposition or not at all. You are represented. If you and a substantial number of your fellow constituents have a grievance then your MP is obliged to look into it and act.”
Um, not according to my mp. She was elected to represent the labour party. She told me so.
inane: lacking significance, meaning, or point
Oh, so that’s what inane means.
*jumps up and down, furiously waving, trying to draw attention to himself but failing*
Is inanity the secret of Mr. Secretary Prescott’s popularity?
Jax/Tim,
Either of you have use for this?
I haven’t noticed a problem tbh. I’m not quite sure what you’re suggesting – that when you’ve finished posting your comment you want to go straight back to it? To check it? Doesn’t particularly bother me not to.