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	<title>Comments on: Sitting on the fence.</title>
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	<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/</link>
	<description>montessori at school, autonomous at home, all learning together</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jax</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-184880</link>
		<dc:creator>Jax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 15:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-184880</guid>
		<description>The quote was from a legal judgement, it's the definition of a suitable education.  I'm not saying that's what I think education should achieve, merely that that is what we are legally obliged to offer.

The National Curriculum and standardisation of learning *doesn't* turn everyone out with a basic standard fit.  Huge numbers of children every year fail to reach the minimum literacy and numeracy standards set, let alone achieve anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote was from a legal judgement, it&#8217;s the definition of a suitable education.  I&#8217;m not saying that&#8217;s what I think education should achieve, merely that that is what we are legally obliged to offer.</p>
<p>The National Curriculum and standardisation of learning *doesn&#8217;t* turn everyone out with a basic standard fit.  Huge numbers of children every year fail to reach the minimum literacy and numeracy standards set, let alone achieve anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberta</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-184833</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 15:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-184833</guid>
		<description>Jax said "Education is meant to fit ppl for a life in their community"...OUCH!...", without foreclosing opportunities (or at least, that is the standard home educators are supposed to work too) and I don’t see that that is happening with schools."

I think that is EXACTLY what is happening in schools. The National Curriculum and standardisation of learning is aiming to turn everyone out with a basic standard fit for this country. That's also what parents do, raising children to fit in with the smaller community. 

At a higher level it is the reproduction of culture, that process that continues the social structures that we rely upon to be able to function in the world. Under the microscope it may not be comfortable but if we do not teach our children the same things we know then they will not understand when we talk to them, nor will we understand them.

But to my OUCH! I think education should be to take people BEYOND the current culture, to deliberately open up new knowledge links and deliberately create opportunities for children to generate new ideas, thoughts, social structures, understandings and to enable them to evolve the very society and culture into which they were born.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jax said &#8220;Education is meant to fit ppl for a life in their community&#8221;&#8230;OUCH!&#8230;&#8221;, without foreclosing opportunities (or at least, that is the standard home educators are supposed to work too) and I don’t see that that is happening with schools.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think that is EXACTLY what is happening in schools. The National Curriculum and standardisation of learning is aiming to turn everyone out with a basic standard fit for this country. That&#8217;s also what parents do, raising children to fit in with the smaller community. </p>
<p>At a higher level it is the reproduction of culture, that process that continues the social structures that we rely upon to be able to function in the world. Under the microscope it may not be comfortable but if we do not teach our children the same things we know then they will not understand when we talk to them, nor will we understand them.</p>
<p>But to my OUCH! I think education should be to take people BEYOND the current culture, to deliberately open up new knowledge links and deliberately create opportunities for children to generate new ideas, thoughts, social structures, understandings and to enable them to evolve the very society and culture into which they were born.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-184297</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 09:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-184297</guid>
		<description>Well, lots of families like school becuase it's free childcare if they both need or want to work. Changing the system to anything that would make sorting out childcare more difficult or costly seems to me like it would be very unpopular.

And I don't think either of the 2 main schools I went to did much of a job of teaching anyone there that they were controlled by a higher authority! That's certainly not the attitude I left with anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, lots of families like school becuase it&#8217;s free childcare if they both need or want to work. Changing the system to anything that would make sorting out childcare more difficult or costly seems to me like it would be very unpopular.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think either of the 2 main schools I went to did much of a job of teaching anyone there that they were controlled by a higher authority! That&#8217;s certainly not the attitude I left with anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183937</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 21:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183937</guid>
		<description>I wonder sometimes what society would be like if home education were the norm.  Not so much in the difference to the children themselves, but mass behaviour and attitudes and so on.  For instance, would everyone still have the big rush to go away over the summer?  What would happen to the economy if parents had to do more of the childcare because schools didn't do it during term time?  Would we see a move back to more apprenticeships?

It's all speculation (therefore possibly not the most productive of activities :) ) and I'm not suggesting that all outcomes would necessarily be positive!

Or, looking at it differently, if we could offer _every_ child and family the choice to have schools, home ed, learning centres and everything, what would people choose?

This is probably me being far too much up my own backside, so no change there then ;-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder sometimes what society would be like if home education were the norm.  Not so much in the difference to the children themselves, but mass behaviour and attitudes and so on.  For instance, would everyone still have the big rush to go away over the summer?  What would happen to the economy if parents had to do more of the childcare because schools didn&#8217;t do it during term time?  Would we see a move back to more apprenticeships?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all speculation (therefore possibly not the most productive of activities <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) and I&#8217;m not suggesting that all outcomes would necessarily be positive!</p>
<p>Or, looking at it differently, if we could offer _every_ child and family the choice to have schools, home ed, learning centres and everything, what would people choose?</p>
<p>This is probably me being far too much up my own backside, so no change there then ;-).</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183708</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 08:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183708</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for picking me up on my typo, Chris.

By the way, didn't you mean "Isn’t working for &lt;b&gt;whom&lt;/b&gt;?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for picking me up on my typo, Chris.</p>
<p>By the way, didn&#8217;t you mean &#8220;Isn’t working for <b>whom</b>?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jax</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183379</link>
		<dc:creator>Jax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183379</guid>
		<description>I suspect that most ppl just think that's the way it is and that's the way it has to be.  One of the things that schooling does is teach ppl that they are controlled by a greater authority, so turning around to that authority and saying, you've got it all wrong, has got to be quite tough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that most ppl just think that&#8217;s the way it is and that&#8217;s the way it has to be.  One of the things that schooling does is teach ppl that they are controlled by a greater authority, so turning around to that authority and saying, you&#8217;ve got it all wrong, has got to be quite tough.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183378</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183378</guid>
		<description>Still interested to know why you think the majority of the population hasn't realised 'how badly a one size fits all system isn’t working'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still interested to know why you think the majority of the population hasn&#8217;t realised &#8216;how badly a one size fits all system isn’t working&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jax</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183376</link>
		<dc:creator>Jax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183376</guid>
		<description>Is the current system working?

No, I don't think so.  Education is meant to fit ppl for a life in their community, without foreclosing opportunities (or at least, that is the standard home educators are supposed to work too) and I don't see that that is happening with schools.  The system was designed a long time ago, for a different age and different needs, and it hasn't really changed all that much since.  It doesn't make sense to process kids in yearly bunches and give them long summer holidays to fit in with the harvest, but we still do all of that.

so there is no revolution of parents asking for change? was there a revolution of parents asking for a school system in the first place?  I doubt it, but it didn't stop it happening.

Coherence is still not my strong point at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the current system working?</p>
<p>No, I don&#8217;t think so.  Education is meant to fit ppl for a life in their community, without foreclosing opportunities (or at least, that is the standard home educators are supposed to work too) and I don&#8217;t see that that is happening with schools.  The system was designed a long time ago, for a different age and different needs, and it hasn&#8217;t really changed all that much since.  It doesn&#8217;t make sense to process kids in yearly bunches and give them long summer holidays to fit in with the harvest, but we still do all of that.</p>
<p>so there is no revolution of parents asking for change? was there a revolution of parents asking for a school system in the first place?  I doubt it, but it didn&#8217;t stop it happening.</p>
<p>Coherence is still not my strong point at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183258</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183258</guid>
		<description>I think learning centres, like you describe, would be great in so many ways. They would combine the advantages of home and school based education, and it would be great to see children have a place in their communities. There would be a further advantage in such centres, that there would be no need for special schools; children with additional needs and their parents would be able to support each other better, and take advice from outside sources, when they want it. 

So you enjoy working, that is great! What works for your family is all that matters. I think we all have to try to find what works for each of us, in our working or not, schooling or not, and it'd be better if no-one would pass judgement on other people's choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think learning centres, like you describe, would be great in so many ways. They would combine the advantages of home and school based education, and it would be great to see children have a place in their communities. There would be a further advantage in such centres, that there would be no need for special schools; children with additional needs and their parents would be able to support each other better, and take advice from outside sources, when they want it. </p>
<p>So you enjoy working, that is great! What works for your family is all that matters. I think we all have to try to find what works for each of us, in our working or not, schooling or not, and it&#8217;d be better if no-one would pass judgement on other people&#8217;s choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/08/02/sitting-on-the-fence/#comment-183013</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 23:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1511#comment-183013</guid>
		<description>We feel the same irritation at those who define unschooling as' must be done a certain way'. And of any philosophy, unschooling ought to be the one which allows room for the most freedom in implementation.

Excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We feel the same irritation at those who define unschooling as&#8217; must be done a certain way&#8217;. And of any philosophy, unschooling ought to be the one which allows room for the most freedom in implementation.</p>
<p>Excellent post.</p>
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