Comments on: going to the carnival. http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/ coming home again Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:04:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Tim http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172290 Tim Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:59:03 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172290 No, any divorce would still be dealt with under English law if you live in England. No, any divorce would still be dealt with under English law if you live in England.

]]> By: Nic http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172289 Nic Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:48:55 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172289 Unless you get married abroad surely? Unless you get married abroad surely?

]]> By: Tim http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172178 Tim Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:31:16 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172178 Helen, what I was trying to get across is that you may meddle with the wording, but you cannot escape the statutory legal framework within you say those words. If it is a marriage, then it is subject to the law, and the law is written from the perspective of the established Anglican church. Not RC, nor Muslim, nor Mormon, nor Jewish, - whichever faith ( or none ) you get married under, you are stuck with an Anglican law. Helen, what I was trying to get across is that you may meddle with the wording, but you cannot escape the statutory legal framework within you say those words. If it is a marriage, then it is subject to the law, and the law is written from the perspective of the established Anglican church. Not RC, nor Muslim, nor Mormon, nor Jewish, – whichever faith ( or none ) you get married under, you are stuck with an Anglican law.

]]> By: HelenHaricot http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172176 HelenHaricot Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:15:37 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172176 you have gone on about seperating church and state from marriage, but it is done already! we had a CIVIL [in all senses!] marriage at a jacobean manor house http://www.information-britain.co.uk/showPlace.cfm?Place_ID=1588 [unmoderat me please!!] btw, loved your venuse alison. we had no religion in it at all, meddled only marginally with wording. lovely music, 3 friends reading and that was that -2o mins max. BUT we met the night before for a meal, and ghatted laughed and danced the whole day. not a wisp of religion, but full of meaning you have gone on about seperating church and state from marriage, but it is done already!
we had a CIVIL [in all senses!] marriage at a jacobean manor house
http://www.information-britain.co.uk/showPlace.cfm?Place_ID=1588
[unmoderat me please!!]
btw, loved your venuse alison.
we had no religion in it at all, meddled only marginally with wording. lovely music, 3 friends reading and that was that -2o mins max.
BUT we met the night before for a meal, and ghatted laughed and danced the whole day.
not a wisp of religion, but full of meaning

]]> By: Claire http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172175 Claire Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:11:12 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172175 I've been married, divorced, co-habitated and now considering a Civil Partnership. Divorce isn't pretty but then again as well as dealing with divorce every day in my work I also deal with almost as many separations of co-habitees. I can tell you that whilst some of those can be as ugly and as messy as divorce, generally even when children and jointly owned assets are involved, the parties seem far more able to be pleasant and resonable. There is something about marriage - particularly those that last around 7 years or more and those where there are children that makes people behave horribly. Any solicitor will tell you that! I prefer to deal with non-marriage separations because I know if I pick up a file where the parties were married, I can pretty much guarantee that most of my time will be spent reading their arguments that last on average 3 years! Most other splits take around 12 - 18 months to resolve even with property and children involved. Don't get me started on the morons who fought for 8 years over the pet hamsters, horses and dogs! 8 years of public funds wasted imo. That was one hell of a file to deal with. I’ve been married, divorced, co-habitated and now considering a Civil Partnership. Divorce isn’t pretty but then again as well as dealing with divorce every day in my work I also deal with almost as many separations of co-habitees. I can tell you that whilst some of those can be as ugly and as messy as divorce, generally even when children and jointly owned assets are involved, the parties seem far more able to be pleasant and resonable.

There is something about marriage – particularly those that last around 7 years or more and those where there are children that makes people behave horribly. Any solicitor will tell you that!

I prefer to deal with non-marriage separations because I know if I pick up a file where the parties were married, I can pretty much guarantee that most of my time will be spent reading their arguments that last on average 3 years!
Most other splits take around 12 – 18 months to resolve even with property and children involved.

Don’t get me started on the morons who fought for 8 years over the pet hamsters, horses and dogs! 8 years of public funds wasted imo. That was one hell of a file to deal with.

]]> By: Tim http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172174 Tim Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:00:10 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172174 I am agnostic, but this is the view of marriage I was raised with and which is still embedded somewhere: <a href="http://www.eskimo.com/~lhowell/bcp1662/occasion/marriage.html" rel="nofollow">The Form of Solemnization of Matrimony</a> I am agnostic, but this is the view of marriage I was raised with and which is still embedded somewhere:

The Form of Solemnization of Matrimony

]]> By: Nic http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172173 Nic Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:42:59 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172173 Except of course neither of us holds any religious beliefs whatsoever! :lol: I guess I am a romantic really - I hate the idea of pre-nuptial agreements too. I am not giddy enough to not realise that relationships do break up and can get horribly sticky and painful particularly when trying to seperate assets and split all the sundries that go with a relationship, but I suppose never having been through a divorce, and hoping I never do I don't give much headspace to the practicalities of one and whether society should put procedures in place to make disolutions of relationships more straightforward. Except of course neither of us holds any religious beliefs whatsoever! :lol:

I guess I am a romantic really – I hate the idea of pre-nuptial agreements too. I am not giddy enough to not realise that relationships do break up and can get horribly sticky and painful particularly when trying to seperate assets and split all the sundries that go with a relationship, but I suppose never having been through a divorce, and hoping I never do I don’t give much headspace to the practicalities of one and whether society should put procedures in place to make disolutions of relationships more straightforward.

]]> By: Tim http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172172 Tim Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:31:02 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172172 Nic, what you are talking about is a spiritual commitment between you. One which the law won't enforce anyway. If what I suggest were done, there would be nothing to prevent you from going to church as before, and making any vows you fancied. They would just have no legal force at all (same as now really). The legal contract would be something different and separate. Nic, what you are talking about is a spiritual commitment between you. One which the law won’t enforce anyway. If what I suggest were done, there would be nothing to prevent you from going to church as before, and making any vows you fancied.

They would just have no legal force at all (same as now really). The legal contract would be something different and separate.

]]> By: Nic http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172171 Nic Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:10:35 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172171 For me the problem with the suggestion of contracts is that it does assume possibility of ending the contract, particularly if you start putting in notice periods ;-). I would imagine that with a few very odd exceptions no one gets married with any intention of breaking the marriage. The fact that the statistics show they some people are wrong in that assumption is not enough of a reason to not do it in the first place. Ady and I were together, with a shared mortgage for over six years before we got married. We had a variety of reasons for doing so but the key thing was that every single word we said in our vows was from the heart - said with meaning and abided by ever since. We both intend to forsake all others, to remain together in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer (particularly pertinant currently! ;-) ) til death do us part. I'm not saying I do so because I am marrried, I am saying I married because that's what I intend to do. It was wonderful to have those thoughts witnessed by others at our wedding, to have family and friends celebrate the fact we loved each other deeply enough to make those vows afterwards and I personally frequently recall the words of the man who married us (he told us to never let our wedding rings only mean we were married, to every time we look at them to remember how much we loved each other on our wedding day, to always be best friends) and take great comfort, pleasure and enjoyment from being married. I wanted to take Ady's name, I wanted our future children to have the same name as the two of us - I happily moved from being part of my parents family to being the beginning of my own but more than anything else saying those words to Ady and having him say them back will always be one of the most important things I ever did. For me the problem with the suggestion of contracts is that it does assume possibility of ending the contract, particularly if you start putting in notice periods ;-) . I would imagine that with a few very odd exceptions no one gets married with any intention of breaking the marriage. The fact that the statistics show they some people are wrong in that assumption is not enough of a reason to not do it in the first place.

Ady and I were together, with a shared mortgage for over six years before we got married. We had a variety of reasons for doing so but the key thing was that every single word we said in our vows was from the heart – said with meaning and abided by ever since. We both intend to forsake all others, to remain together in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer (particularly pertinant currently! ;-) ) til death do us part. I’m not saying I do so because I am marrried, I am saying I married because that’s what I intend to do. It was wonderful to have those thoughts witnessed by others at our wedding, to have family and friends celebrate the fact we loved each other deeply enough to make those vows afterwards and I personally frequently recall the words of the man who married us (he told us to never let our wedding rings only mean we were married, to every time we look at them to remember how much we loved each other on our wedding day, to always be best friends) and take great comfort, pleasure and enjoyment from being married. I wanted to take Ady’s name, I wanted our future children to have the same name as the two of us – I happily moved from being part of my parents family to being the beginning of my own but more than anything else saying those words to Ady and having him say them back will always be one of the most important things I ever did.

]]> By: Tim http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/comment-page-2/#comment-172169 Tim Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:52:51 +0000 http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2006/07/08/going-to-the-carnival/#comment-172169 Oh yes, one more thing about children. There has been a recent case where a couple had created embryos together and the father later withdrew his consent to their being used. I can't see why there is not scope to have a range of specific legal forms which would have some but not all of the charaterisitics of a legal marriage, and which would specifically cover these sorts of issues. The reason I suggest this is that, in the case I have seen in the news, there did not appear to be any resolution which did not result in injustice to one or the other party. 72 comments. Is this an Otherwise record? Oh yes, one more thing about children. There has been a recent case where a couple had created embryos together and the father later withdrew his consent to their being used. I can’t see why there is not scope to have a range of specific legal forms which would have some but not all of the charaterisitics of a legal marriage, and which would specifically cover these sorts of issues. The reason I suggest this is that, in the case I have seen in the news, there did not appear to be any resolution which did not result in injustice to one or the other party.

72 comments. Is this an Otherwise record?

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