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	<title>Comments on: Musing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/</link>
	<description>montessori at school, autonomous at home, all learning together</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-37532</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-37532</guid>
		<description>Ooh, nearly missed this. And I seem to feature so heavily in it too ;-) ;-)

I was somehow aware of HE just after I had Davies - so 5 years ago - when I got all active on parenting sites and newsgroups. I considered it briefly while in that newborn babymoon phase where you cannot imagine ever being parted from your child and then quickly wrote it off as something I would *never* do.

I came back to it again when Davies was hating daycare nursery aged 2 and started to look into it properly. I already *knew* Alison and June through UKPP newsgroup (and Chris/Helen too although had not associated them with HE) and they directed me to muddlepuddle.

The first people I met IRL were those at London last Sept (Jax, Alison, Layla, Barbara, Jan, Sarah, sorry if I've missed anyone out, it was a bit of a blur!) and then everyone at Melrose. I had met Jenny a couple of times before we started up our local group and also met Ros through that before Melrose. Through local stuff and blogging have also met Ali IRL although I now consider most of these friendships to be 'real life' ones rather than Home Ed ones.

I think I only heard of HESFES when everyone stopped blogging last May because they were there. I probably had few preconceptions about what HE folk would be like before we started and have even less now! HESFES was pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. All I was worried about came true and all I was looking forward to also came true. I think it is very inaccurate to describe it as 'the' HE event, a good way to start or anything other than what it is. 

I do value my RL HE friendships very much but I would have happily gone along to HESFES even knowing no one if I had stumbled across it given the way it is refered to. I am glad that was not the case as I think I may have run screaming from the field ;-) I spent the second half of last year working very hard to ensure that me and the children had a network of HE friends - locally and nationally - to give us that resource and I think it has paid off. I would hate to be a shy or retiring person trying to HE, I think it would be pretty hard as there is a lot of putting yourself into the middle of a 'strange' group of people and trying to find your place. Much worse than the first day of school IMHO!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, nearly missed this. And I seem to feature so heavily in it too <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ;-)</p>
<p>I was somehow aware of HE just after I had Davies - so 5 years ago - when I got all active on parenting sites and newsgroups. I considered it briefly while in that newborn babymoon phase where you cannot imagine ever being parted from your child and then quickly wrote it off as something I would *never* do.</p>
<p>I came back to it again when Davies was hating daycare nursery aged 2 and started to look into it properly. I already *knew* Alison and June through UKPP newsgroup (and Chris/Helen too although had not associated them with HE) and they directed me to muddlepuddle.</p>
<p>The first people I met IRL were those at London last Sept (Jax, Alison, Layla, Barbara, Jan, Sarah, sorry if I&#8217;ve missed anyone out, it was a bit of a blur!) and then everyone at Melrose. I had met Jenny a couple of times before we started up our local group and also met Ros through that before Melrose. Through local stuff and blogging have also met Ali IRL although I now consider most of these friendships to be &#8216;real life&#8217; ones rather than Home Ed ones.</p>
<p>I think I only heard of HESFES when everyone stopped blogging last May because they were there. I probably had few preconceptions about what HE folk would be like before we started and have even less now! HESFES was pretty much exactly what I thought it would be. All I was worried about came true and all I was looking forward to also came true. I think it is very inaccurate to describe it as &#8216;the&#8217; HE event, a good way to start or anything other than what it is. </p>
<p>I do value my RL HE friendships very much but I would have happily gone along to HESFES even knowing no one if I had stumbled across it given the way it is refered to. I am glad that was not the case as I think I may have run screaming from the field <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> I spent the second half of last year working very hard to ensure that me and the children had a network of HE friends - locally and nationally - to give us that resource and I think it has paid off. I would hate to be a shy or retiring person trying to HE, I think it would be pretty hard as there is a lot of putting yourself into the middle of a &#8217;strange&#8217; group of people and trying to find your place. Much worse than the first day of school IMHO!</p>
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		<title>By: Deb W</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-37395</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-37395</guid>
		<description>We tried (and failed) to make HESFES last year. I doubt if we'll try again - after the disaster last year (starting with the "flat" field but certainly not ending there), I have no faith in the organisers. But that's not my point, which is that for us, one of the huge attractions of HESFES was indeed the opportunity to meet other home-educators, many of whom I'd known on-line for some time but never had the chance to meet in person. There are few HE'ers here - I think the nearest home-ed family (excluding the fundamentalists, who don't want to know us anyway) is probably at least an hour away. And other camps - well, shorter camps simply aren't a possibility for us - it's so expensive to get to them when you have to add in a couple of hundred pounds for a ferry before you even start. And smaller camps wouldn't allow us to meet many of the people we'd like to meet - HESFES would have done that.

So while HESFES would not have been an introduction to HE, it would indeed have been our chance to meet many more home-educators than we do here.

As for the FES becoming more important than the HES - tbh, I suspect that other similarly-sized FESes are probably much better-organised than HESFES, at least in terms of the facilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We tried (and failed) to make HESFES last year. I doubt if we&#8217;ll try again - after the disaster last year (starting with the &#8220;flat&#8221; field but certainly not ending there), I have no faith in the organisers. But that&#8217;s not my point, which is that for us, one of the huge attractions of HESFES was indeed the opportunity to meet other home-educators, many of whom I&#8217;d known on-line for some time but never had the chance to meet in person. There are few HE&#8217;ers here - I think the nearest home-ed family (excluding the fundamentalists, who don&#8217;t want to know us anyway) is probably at least an hour away. And other camps - well, shorter camps simply aren&#8217;t a possibility for us - it&#8217;s so expensive to get to them when you have to add in a couple of hundred pounds for a ferry before you even start. And smaller camps wouldn&#8217;t allow us to meet many of the people we&#8217;d like to meet - HESFES would have done that.</p>
<p>So while HESFES would not have been an introduction to HE, it would indeed have been our chance to meet many more home-educators than we do here.</p>
<p>As for the FES becoming more important than the HES - tbh, I suspect that other similarly-sized FESes are probably much better-organised than HESFES, at least in terms of the facilities.</p>
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		<title>By: jax</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-37232</link>
		<dc:creator>jax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-37232</guid>
		<description>I'd join in, she's irritating. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d join in, she&#8217;s irritating. <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Merry</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-37196</link>
		<dc:creator>Merry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-37196</guid>
		<description>Mmmmm..... only just found this.

The only thing that really put me off HESFES this year was the wet, the mud, the cold and the utter lack of interest in providing santation for people. It was so clearly only a FES, as Alison says, and as a FES, the crap toilets and bad conditions were somehow supposed to be justifiable. But if you say you are providing a place for Home Educators then that ought to be something safe and accessible for most people who'll come, not something only really geared up for people who want to listen to bands and can manage to rough it. If its going to become a teenfes or an ex-he fes, fine - say so. It'd be understandable. Will i still be doing muddlepuddle camps when Josie goes past 8? Probably not.

If its going to be warmer in June, i'll probably give it a go again, i'd gone the previous two years and struggled but felt rewarded the first time, loved it the second. Third time i was less annoyed by the reality than i was by the disregard for peoples' needs once reality struck. That goes for Robin and organisers. They "could" have hired in toilets, they'd done it before.

I only know of 2 other people from my local area who go and to say its where everything to do with HE happens and where people meet is a bit laughable. I can't think of more than a tiny handful of people who i think of as epitomised by HESFES. I can think of loads of people who do it but only "because" and loads who wouldn't even consider it. My first year i made friends with 2 couples dead opposite me, one of whom i've seen once since and Alison. I'd have died on my posterior without Alison to help me but i only got to know her because she was persistant enough to keep being friendly when i was feeling shy and overawed. I'd never have found her if she's felt like i did.

And i'm in imminent danger of battering the 15 year old on HESCHAT! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmmm&#8230;.. only just found this.</p>
<p>The only thing that really put me off HESFES this year was the wet, the mud, the cold and the utter lack of interest in providing santation for people. It was so clearly only a FES, as Alison says, and as a FES, the crap toilets and bad conditions were somehow supposed to be justifiable. But if you say you are providing a place for Home Educators then that ought to be something safe and accessible for most people who&#8217;ll come, not something only really geared up for people who want to listen to bands and can manage to rough it. If its going to become a teenfes or an ex-he fes, fine - say so. It&#8217;d be understandable. Will i still be doing muddlepuddle camps when Josie goes past 8? Probably not.</p>
<p>If its going to be warmer in June, i&#8217;ll probably give it a go again, i&#8217;d gone the previous two years and struggled but felt rewarded the first time, loved it the second. Third time i was less annoyed by the reality than i was by the disregard for peoples&#8217; needs once reality struck. That goes for Robin and organisers. They &#8220;could&#8221; have hired in toilets, they&#8217;d done it before.</p>
<p>I only know of 2 other people from my local area who go and to say its where everything to do with HE happens and where people meet is a bit laughable. I can&#8217;t think of more than a tiny handful of people who i think of as epitomised by HESFES. I can think of loads of people who do it but only &#8220;because&#8221; and loads who wouldn&#8217;t even consider it. My first year i made friends with 2 couples dead opposite me, one of whom i&#8217;ve seen once since and Alison. I&#8217;d have died on my posterior without Alison to help me but i only got to know her because she was persistant enough to keep being friendly when i was feeling shy and overawed. I&#8217;d never have found her if she&#8217;s felt like i did.</p>
<p>And i&#8217;m in imminent danger of battering the 15 year old on HESCHAT! <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Alison</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-37002</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-37002</guid>
		<description>I joined the UKHE and EO lists in Jan or Feb 2001, and went to Hesfes that May - 'knew' a couple of people vaguely online, had just met a coupe of local people who were going (had booked my tickets before I started going to the local group), and had had a firm offer to help put my tent up (Abbie's 'boyfriend's' parents, whom I still consider friends).

Met some online people, and also talked to several brand new people. Tbh, I think that the more people I've known there (especially the last two years when I've camped with MP people), the more people I've met there, and to some extent, the more I've got out of *Hesfes*, rather than enjoying myself having a holiday with people I know, if that makes sense.

I do think that the *HE* bit of Hesfes is waning in importance as the *FES* bit waxes ... but we'll be there in 2006 for our 6th visit anyway, the kids wouldn't have it any other way :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I joined the UKHE and EO lists in Jan or Feb 2001, and went to Hesfes that May - &#8216;knew&#8217; a couple of people vaguely online, had just met a coupe of local people who were going (had booked my tickets before I started going to the local group), and had had a firm offer to help put my tent up (Abbie&#8217;s &#8216;boyfriend&#8217;s&#8217; parents, whom I still consider friends).</p>
<p>Met some online people, and also talked to several brand new people. Tbh, I think that the more people I&#8217;ve known there (especially the last two years when I&#8217;ve camped with MP people), the more people I&#8217;ve met there, and to some extent, the more I&#8217;ve got out of *Hesfes*, rather than enjoying myself having a holiday with people I know, if that makes sense.</p>
<p>I do think that the *HE* bit of Hesfes is waning in importance as the *FES* bit waxes &#8230; but we&#8217;ll be there in 2006 for our 6th visit anyway, the kids wouldn&#8217;t have it any other way <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-36995</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-36995</guid>
		<description>Found EO website, found MP website, found Yahoo MP and EO lists, found MP blogs, e-mailed Nic, met Nic and D and S, that's it.
Next year will be our major year of meeting lots of other HEers and attending camp(s), I'm easing into it really gradually, but looking forward to it. I tend naturally to be a bit more of an onliner than a real-lifer in social terms generally, but I try consciously to redress that, especially for F, who probably wouldn't get much soshelizashun from watching me enjoy other people's blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found EO website, found MP website, found Yahoo MP and EO lists, found MP blogs, e-mailed Nic, met Nic and D and S, that&#8217;s it.<br />
Next year will be our major year of meeting lots of other HEers and attending camp(s), I&#8217;m easing into it really gradually, but looking forward to it. I tend naturally to be a bit more of an onliner than a real-lifer in social terms generally, but I try consciously to redress that, especially for F, who probably wouldn&#8217;t get much soshelizashun from watching me enjoy other people&#8217;s blogs.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-36985</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-36985</guid>
		<description>I took a friend of mine to HESFES with her 5 yr old HE son the summer before P was due to start school. HE was being considered but when we got back from HESFES I enrolled her. HESFES sucks if you don't know anyone and want to actually *do* something. 

In our local group only one woman raves about HESFES but we've got another family who spend most the summer immersed in one folk festival after another but are totally uninterested in HESFES on the grounds of the organisational apathy. 

This year was crap too and one afternoon S made an attempt to help P do some of the stuff on offer but it was either over-crowded, cancelled or not as billed. She enjoyed the social thing but much prefered MotB where you socialize but also *do* activities. I suppose it depends upon who you are and what you like really. 

I think a fair proportion of the HE "community" would run for their lives from HESFES. I'm joining them :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took a friend of mine to HESFES with her 5 yr old HE son the summer before P was due to start school. HE was being considered but when we got back from HESFES I enrolled her. HESFES sucks if you don&#8217;t know anyone and want to actually *do* something. </p>
<p>In our local group only one woman raves about HESFES but we&#8217;ve got another family who spend most the summer immersed in one folk festival after another but are totally uninterested in HESFES on the grounds of the organisational apathy. </p>
<p>This year was crap too and one afternoon S made an attempt to help P do some of the stuff on offer but it was either over-crowded, cancelled or not as billed. She enjoyed the social thing but much prefered MotB where you socialize but also *do* activities. I suppose it depends upon who you are and what you like really. </p>
<p>I think a fair proportion of the HE &#8220;community&#8221; would run for their lives from HESFES. I&#8217;m joining them <img src='http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-36864</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-36864</guid>
		<description>Mudpud list was my way in to the UK HE scene, and we went to Buxton camp soon after deciding to HE. 

Our local HE group contains some of the kind of HEers one might expect to go to HESFES, but they don't go, and I also know some Christian HEers who don't go, so it wouldn't have occurred to me to think of it as the be-all and end-all (that phrase looks really odd written)

If there are, as some people estimate, 150,000 children being HEd in the UK, that's an awful lot who have nothing at all to do with HESFES.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mudpud list was my way in to the UK HE scene, and we went to Buxton camp soon after deciding to HE. </p>
<p>Our local HE group contains some of the kind of HEers one might expect to go to HESFES, but they don&#8217;t go, and I also know some Christian HEers who don&#8217;t go, so it wouldn&#8217;t have occurred to me to think of it as the be-all and end-all (that phrase looks really odd written)</p>
<p>If there are, as some people estimate, 150,000 children being HEd in the UK, that&#8217;s an awful lot who have nothing at all to do with HESFES.</p>
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		<title>By: karen b</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-36829</link>
		<dc:creator>karen b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-36829</guid>
		<description>I first got in contact with groups on the net in about March 2004?  Thank God I found EO and Muddle Puddle though.  I loved the MP group and the blogs then when we had made up our mind on a decision for dd I started my own blog.  Got to emailing Nic quite a lot because at the time I couldn't leave comments on her blog for some reason.  Then I heard all the chat about the camps and didn't fancy HESFES at all as it came over as a 'Glastonbury' type of camp which I don't think I would like.  I also tried to go to local groups and started my own too - none of which came to anything - group dynamics in this area just don't seem to work for me at the moment (or many other people either).  Melrose for me was brilliant.  Although dd still had to be supervised to a certain degree I was mainly free for the first time to actually be with others of like minds and knew that she was safe inside and couldn't escape anywhere.  Then we went to Kessingland but several reasons which I can't blog (nothing to do with anyone on blogs!) I did not have a very good time - this does include dd's hyper excitable state and her running off - getting better slightly now - but other things closer to home were dreadful.  I knew only Nic before Melrose as she very bravely called here on the way up and stayed the night but other than that only knew people on blogs which I really enjoy being a part of.  Not knowing people wouldn't normally put me off going anywhere although I can be awkward and tongue twisted when trying to get to know people.  Looking forward to Melrose though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first got in contact with groups on the net in about March 2004?  Thank God I found EO and Muddle Puddle though.  I loved the MP group and the blogs then when we had made up our mind on a decision for dd I started my own blog.  Got to emailing Nic quite a lot because at the time I couldn&#8217;t leave comments on her blog for some reason.  Then I heard all the chat about the camps and didn&#8217;t fancy HESFES at all as it came over as a &#8216;Glastonbury&#8217; type of camp which I don&#8217;t think I would like.  I also tried to go to local groups and started my own too - none of which came to anything - group dynamics in this area just don&#8217;t seem to work for me at the moment (or many other people either).  Melrose for me was brilliant.  Although dd still had to be supervised to a certain degree I was mainly free for the first time to actually be with others of like minds and knew that she was safe inside and couldn&#8217;t escape anywhere.  Then we went to Kessingland but several reasons which I can&#8217;t blog (nothing to do with anyone on blogs!) I did not have a very good time - this does include dd&#8217;s hyper excitable state and her running off - getting better slightly now - but other things closer to home were dreadful.  I knew only Nic before Melrose as she very bravely called here on the way up and stayed the night but other than that only knew people on blogs which I really enjoy being a part of.  Not knowing people wouldn&#8217;t normally put me off going anywhere although I can be awkward and tongue twisted when trying to get to know people.  Looking forward to Melrose though.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah, Dino &#38; Mimi</title>
		<link>http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/2005/09/18/musing/#comment-36825</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah, Dino &#38; Mimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveotherwise.co.uk/makingitup/?p=1094#comment-36825</guid>
		<description>Hi Sarah!

It's not the people, it's the Alone-with-2-children-and-no-walls thing that's scary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sarah!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the people, it&#8217;s the Alone-with-2-children-and-no-walls thing that&#8217;s scary.</p>
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